Bachelor Party Ethics: How Far is Too Far?

There’s an old saying about the distinction between art and pornography: maybe you can’t define pornography, but you’ll “know it when you see it.” True here?

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There’s an old saying about the distinction between art and pornography: maybe you can’t define pornography, but you’ll “know it when you see it.” Typically, the ethics of the bachelor party works the same way: if it feels wrong, it’s probably wrong.

Then again, it’s never really that simple, is it? To help guide your moral compass, we’ve created a continuum of bachelor wrongness, with “0” as spotless as a lamb, and “10” a cheating, lying, Joe-Francis-esque douchebag.

What’s your score?

Basic male-bonding activities

Cheating Score: 0.000

Harmless stuff like playing poker, puffing cigars, and knocking back some bottles of well-aged Scotch. If your fiancée is threatened by this activity, consider calling off the wedding. Seriously. At bare minimum, every guy deserves some quality time with his best friends.

Flirting with random girls at club

Cheating Score: 1.5

When your buddies drag you out to a bar, they’re bound to tell the waitresses and random girls that it’s your last night of freedom, your swansong, your final gasp of fresh air. To clarify: this is bullshit. Your last gasp of freedom was months or even years ago—you’re in a monogamous relationship; you’re already committed. That said, on your bachelor party, harmless flirting (so long as it’s harmless) is beyond reproach.

Going to a strip club…just to watch

Cheating Score: 3.5

Yes, theoretically, it’s possible to simply go to the strip club and just watch. This make about as much sense as going to Home Depot to stare at the pipes and lumber. Besides, it’s insulting to the girls if you refuse their goods and services. They work really hard for your benefit—only a real jerk would ignore them. You’re classier than that.

Tipping a stripper while she’s onstage

Cheating Score: 4.2

You know the move. It’s when the stripper grinds out her pole dance—in public, onstage—then you put some money in front of you, and then she’ll shower you with a little extra attention. It’s not a lapdance, per se, but it’s more personalized attention. They won’t be thrilled, but most fiancée’s will be okay with this.

The Lapdance

Cheating Score: 4.5 through 6.5

The great debate. Is getting a lapdance cheating? Let’s look at it from your fiancée’s perspective. A hot, skinny, naked, slutty woman is grinding her crotch against you, making you pant with lust, and rubbing her breasts all over your body. And you wonder why she’s jealous? If this was some random girl at a bar, she’d have every right to dump you right then and there. The counter-argument: this is not some random girl in a bar. It’s a controlled act in a controlled environment—and the stripper doesn’t want to screw you, she just wants to screw you out of another $100.

Two variables come into play:

  • Your fiancée’s thoughts on the matter.
  • Your intentions and attitudes toward lapdances.

Let’s say that your fiancée explicitly forbid you from getting lapdances, but your friends have no such constraints. This sucks. You may get mocked by your buddies. And frankly, you and your fiancée may need to make sure you are on the same page about a whole host of behavioral issues. All that said… the rules are the rules. At the risk of getting all cheesy, you love your fiancée more than you love a 3-minute dance that costs over 20 bucks.

The second variable: your intentions. If you view the lapdance as something fun and harmless that’s just part of bachelor party behavior—like gambling in Vegas or snorkeling in Hawaii—then she really does have nothing to worry about. If, however, you long for those non-fiancée breasts, insist on more and more lapdances, fondle her, and pay her something like $200…then yeah, your fiancée has a valid gripe.

Kissing the Stripper

Cheating Score: 7

Everyone is different, but this is where I, personally, draw the line. Call me old-fashioned, call me a prude, call me in the tank for the bride—but a kiss is a kiss. And kissing is cheating. Because the stripper was only doing it for money, however, the sin isn’t as bad as…

Kissing random girl in a bar

Cheating Score: 7.5

We’ll give it to you straight. The guy who makes out with a random girl—a month before his wedding—is the guy who will later have an affair, the guy who makes that “50%” statistic a reality. Just sayin’.

Handjob from a stripper

Cheating Score: 8.1

Dude. You got a handjob. From someone besides your future wife. “But it was at a bachelor party!!!!!” doesn’t excuse it, doesn’t condone it. You’ve cheated. Now what do you do? Click here.

Blowjob from a stripper

Cheating Score: 8.5

If a blowjob can effectively end a presidency, yes, it’s powerful enough to end your marriage.

Sex with a stripper

Cheating Score: 9.3

Congratulations. You have just bought yourself a lifetime of shame. You will bury this, regret this, and be ashamed of this for the next 70 years. Or until your divorce. Wonder which will come first? At least you didn’t have…

Sex with a random girl

Cheating score: 10.0

Why is this worse than sex with a stripper? From your fiancée’s perspective, at least a stripper is a professional, doesn’t represent a real threat, and can probably be dismissed as a one-time deal. (Note: this doesn’t mean she wouldn’t be pissed. She’d be outraged. Ballistic. And she might call off the wedding. We’re just comparing relative degrees of badness, like Charles Manson vs. Hitler.) And again, if you do hook up with Random Girl, click here.

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Comments (25)
Not necessarily, Low-rated comment [Show]

...

a disturbed as hell group...
Joshneedscoffee, July 28, 2009
 

Nice

Kristen. You should hang out with my fiance sometime.
AlmostThere, July 29, 2009
 

You Bet

This is an awsome article, and while I don't want to watch my man have sex like Kristen does, I too enjoy watching him get a lap dance.....hell, i love a lap dance. Yummy. But I would be more then pissed if he started grabbing at her or kissing her. To "Joshneedscoffee" ....I feel bad for you.... go get your coffee and enjoy, cause it sounds like thats the only kind of variety you like.
Kiely, August 03, 2009
 

...

Good article. I'm with you on this. The line is at kissing. Anything more than a lap dance from a professional is cheating. I trust my man, but I'm going to let him read this just so it's fresh in his mind as he goes to his party.
IKP, August 10, 2009
 

Nice Morals

Excellent article.... Marriage is for two people in a monogamous relationship. Period. Anything else (new age, unconventional) is not marriage. It's a friends with benefits or whatever else you wanna call it.
BigManD, August 17, 2009
 
..., Low-rated comment [Show]

Yes, Big Man, They Are

As LDub points out, the only marriage you get to define is your own. As for other kinds of marriage, well, if you don't like it, you can't have any.
Time was when "marriage" was basically slavery, with the woman required to obey the man. Time was when "marriage" was only between people of the same "race" or socioeconomic standing or religion. The definition of "marriage" changes over time, bucko. If you want to define it as "lifelong monogamous one man one woman solemnized in a church," then by all means go have one like that. Just don't get all full of yourself thinking you get to define it for the rest of us.
PolyRob, September 17, 2009
 

Never been told

I wanted to ask the opinion of men and women on my situation:

After 17 years of being married, few months ago my husband told me that he had a bachelor party and "things went too far". He knew I will not accept something like this so he decided to hide because he didn't want to risk losing me!!!

Suprise #!: he has a party and was able to hide the plans and the party so well that I did not even suspect (he never even mentioned he wants to have one, or his friends are talking about it)

Suprise#2: "things went too far", he was able to keep a straight face and not look guilty or weird...that takes a lot of self control or a lot of "not caring" about your future wife!!!

When he first told me and saw my suprise and anger, he said "honey I swear, there was no intercourse"!! That told me right away that there was everything else up to that intercourse..if he is honest. Then the story started getting lighter that he only got a lapdance and touched boobies and watched the woman-on-woman show...he said the stripper didn't touched anything below the belt..

Now do you consider what my husband did "cheating"?

Is it normal for the groom to completely hide the b-party from bride? Is it ok not to even mention the subject with the bride and do it behind her back?

I feel so disrespected and angry not just because of the physical events (touching, etc.), but the fact that he didn't even care enough to tell me his friends had planned a b-party.

Also, I have lost trust and respect for him because if he can go "too far" and be able to keep a normal face, what else has he hidden from me and what kind of a person is he? Is lying so natural for him that he doesn't even blink???

We have 2 boys toghether so against all my beliefs, standards, values, etc. I have decided to stay with him with the condition that if I find out one more lie in the past or future, boys and I will be gone.. For now, I can't ruin my boys home..so I am in counseling and in a lot of hurt and pain...

He swears it was just a one time screw up and he is not the person I have come to believe he is...

what do you all think? I really like to know if anyone else has been in this situation and has any story or experience to share...Advices are very welcome too!!
extra90, September 18, 2009
 

...

It makes me sad to think that we have been so brainwashed and desensitized in our porn-saturated culture that it is not only socially acceptable, but expected for a man to see other naked women while committed?

Does anyone here realize what commitment is? If you want to engage in thoughtless perversions like a caveman, you shouldn't be marrying anybody...you should be single and playing the lonely field full of attention-seeking little girls with daddy issues.

Anyone who is lucky enough to have found someone that they genuinely love enough to marry probably doesn't even desire to see "non-fiancée breasts"...ugh. Ladies, don't think that there aren't men out there who are better than this! What a joke.
EvolvedWoman, September 18, 2009
 

...

I'm just glad my guy doesn't care for strippers or that other "guy" stuff. Not saying he's a prude (we're totally into rough choking and role playing), but he's a one woman kind of man and I consider myself incredibly lucky. I would not be cool with watching another girl having sex with him let alone dance on him and besides, if your man loves you then he's not going to want that anyway, and if you're satisfying each other in bed FULLY (like you should be) there really leaves nothing to be desired from other people. I've been with my fair share of men and I've been with my man for 4 years, none of the other guys can compare and I know none ever will. I honestly feel sorry for the ladies that have to put up with worrying about their guys bachelor party. Good luck to you all.
CollegeGirl, September 19, 2009
 

To extra90

I respect you for not leaving him, because I would have. Call it selfish or not, I would have taken the kids and left because I simply wouldn't stand for being mistreated. What he did was cheating, especially since he hid it from you and changed the story from time to time. If he hadn't planned on doing anything and didn't do anything, he wouldn't have had to hide the party or hide details of the party afterward. Relationships are about communication, cheating is a relative term. If you weren't comfortable with what happened, and he knows it, it's cheating. Emotional relationships can be considered cheating as well as online flirting. It all depends on how you feel about it and his intentions on it.

One time screw ups HARDLY happen. It's usually one time that the other person knows. I've been that person, not proud to say, and it took a lot of time to change. It took probably 7 times and a patient, understanding boyfriend (I was going through a lot of personal problems). He knows about all of them and yes, his trust is hurt, but we aren't married and do not have children together so our relationship is still reparable. But since then, I've changed and marriage is now in the near future.

He's been with you for 17 years and the bachelor party may have been his only fluke. Like you said, if you catch him lying again, leave. Just wanted to share my thoughts with you.
CollegeGirl, September 19, 2009
 

...

I have to agree with Evolved Women. If you "truly" love someone, I wouldn't think you would have any desire to see another woman's chest or anything on her for that matter. My fiance a couple years ago went to a bachelor party and actually paid a stripper to stay away from him. He doesn't think it's classy, and he doesn't like it.
And another thing - If he says I'm not allowed to do it, then well in my book he shouldn't be able to either. I don't think a man would like the idea of his fiance going to a bachelorette party with male strippers and them rubbing up on her, and I have a feeling that men get a lot more jealous, than women do.
LVC, September 22, 2009
 
So sad, you ladies need to seek help., Low-rated comment [Show]

...

To Non-Conrolling Fiancee,

I am fine when the partners are open about their b-party and honest about what happened. I have had friend (men and women) that had their party and came home and reacted for their partner. That is open/honest relationship. My problem with my husband is that he had the party behind my back...went too far (according to him) and was able to cover it up and not even blink the next day when he saw me or made love to me...that is the part I can't get over and that is why I consider it cheating...If he didn't say a word before the party, felt guilty after the party, he thought he had to hide it from me because I would get upset, then I say he had every intention of going too far and lie about it. Also, I consider it disrespect for me...If he had discussed it with me and did it knowing that I wouldn't like it, then it would be inconsiderate and deserve a good long "talk" with him...if he doesn't even mention it before or after, that show that I didn't even exists in his world, and therefore no need to discuss.. That is what my problem is with the hiding. The physical part I can live with...I brought a belly dancer for him at our wedding. I also a while back talking to one of my guy friends to take my husband with them next time they go to strip club. I think I am pretty open minded about these things...but when it comes to honesty and trust, I say I am very black and white...
extra90, September 25, 2009
 

...

The bride MIGHT call off the wedding if a guy has sex with a random girl? Whoever wrote this article is an idiot, or just has a really twisted outlook on what marriage is. Who, in their right mind, would EVER marry a guy that had sex with someone else before the wedding. This article is absurd.
SSSSSSSSSSSS, October 02, 2009
 

...

Yes the line is at kissing. And for the record, sex is sex no matter if it's with a stripper or a random girl. You still had sex with someone else! I'm not a prude...I know my fiance will get a lapdance because his buddies will insist on it. When I told him I was going to a male strip club for my bachlorette(If he can, so can I) I will get a dance with the male stripper too. I just told him, think about what I could be doing with that male stripper and see how you like it. That will keep his mind on you, wondering what all your getting. LOL! Bottom line, I'm woman enough to trust my man for a lap dance, but anything other then that?...no way!!
Summer, October 07, 2009
 

Good Advice Given to Me - Might Help You

I believe that marriage is as individual as the people who are in it, so I respect that what is defined as crossing the line for one couple may be no big deal to another. The bigger point is that the couple needs to agree together on where that line is.

Here's some advice that was given to me and maybe it will help others: if you wouldn't do it (whatever "it" is) in front of your fiancee/fiance, then you probably shouldn't be doing it.

Have an open discussion about this with your fiance/fiancee and also with the people who are planning your big night out. And don't beat the topic to death - once you've reached an understanding, let the subject go and get back to enjoying each other and your engagement.

I hope this helps!
Mel, October 15, 2009
 

...

Strippers are not professionals. They're stippers: people who take their clothes off for money, rather than going to school, and actually becoming a professional (with the exception of the ones who are currently in college, who strip by choice because they enjoy dishonoring themselves intellectually). In my eyes, if my man has a naked women on his lap, it doesn't matter if he's at a strip club, hotel room, or in our own house - he has a naked woman on his lap, and its not me. Some people are okay with that. I am not. To me, its 100% infidelity.
K, October 17, 2009
 

really?

So after reading this article and the responses a few things came to my mind.
1- I totally trust the man I'm marrying and don't care what he does at his bachelor party. Both of us are from Las Vegas so the whole strip club thing is not a new idea, concept, or event it really is not a big deal (honestly). My man has been to strip club and refused lap dances (why?? I have no clue, honestly I don't) for his 21st birthday I gave his friend a bunch of 1s (for tip money that I had saved so he could tip the stripper and have a great time) which they used to buy shots instead. The stripper is not trying to steal your husband or future husband whatever, she wants money. Your husband in turn is not trying to cheat on you or disrepect you either, he is trying to have a fun time with his friends. I understand that cheating is different for everyone, and the line at which that occurs is as individual as your relationship.
A couple of questions then
why can't he have fun some other way like poker or drinks or something where there isn't naked women fondling themselves?
As I'm sure this is the case with most men, they have seen other women besides you naked, perhaps even have pictures of them in porno stash, are they sleeping with them? no. Ok well then why would they sleep with the stripper? They wouldn't. It is honestly something to do, and is more about the other non-married single men who want to go out and look (this is what my boyfriend said to me).

If you are questioning what your man is going to do at his bachelor party perhaps you should reevaluate the trust issue in your relationship. You clearly don't trust him enough to determine what is the line and what isn't. Guys contrary to popular belief are smart they know what is ok and what is not. If your guy doesn't want to cheat on you he won't. Is there a grey area you might want to discuss a little before they go out? maybe. You might want to clarify what is cheating to you and what isn't. But don't in any way try to control where they go on their bachelor night (let them have this one, let them be manly men and blow a few hundred bucks and have an awesome time, let them realize that the reason that they want to marry you is because your not a control psycho, but the fun beautiful, smart, wonderful woman, who trust them.) Think of it this way you just made them spend the last however long your engagement was doing wedding stuff (which would be like several hours of shoveling horse manure for you after which you deserve the spa treatment great glass of wine and to have the best dinner on the planet which to a guy = lots of drinking, smoking, gambling, and perhaps some fake boobies (and almost all strippers boobs are fake which according to a guy friend of mine fun to look at but not fun to play with.)

j, November 12, 2009
 

to extra90

To extra90
honestly I don't think your guy tried to hide anything from you or be disrespectful, judging by how upset you were about just hearing about the party is probably why he didn't tell you in the first place. He married you, he loves you, he had children with you. Is the man that he has been the last 17 years the man you love and care about? I bet you he doesn't even remember the strippers name or what she looked like. He probably didn't tell you because you would get so mad about it and to him it wasn't a big deal. Think about it if he had told you he was going to a strip club would you let him? And don't pretend like yea I would be fine with it, thinking about who you were at that time, and be honest about it. I think honestly he said it with a straight face because he honestly didn't do anything, you know when he's lying. He doesn't want to lose you and he knows that going to the strip club and getting a lap dance would have made you freak out (its ok to freak out about it, but also think about how much you trust him and love him, in the grand scheme of things that he could have done, sleeping with her, losing your entire life savings, losing his job and not telling you, buying a sports car that you can't afford when you really need a mini-van, think of all the years that you have been together and all the times that he has been there for you, supported you, desired you, cherished you, loved you.) So he messed up (and probably not as bad as you think he did, and then he told you, if he really didn't care about you he would have just never told you granted it took forever for him to do probably because he has been feeling so guilty about it and trying to prove to you that he is the wonderful person you wanted to married and he might have been scared that he didn't have enough proof of that, I have a guy friend that has cheated numerous times on his wife he doesn't care enough to tell her, because he doesn't love her, but he doesn't support her or cherish her either, and doesn't want to have kids with her.) Now obviously I don't know your relationship, and I don't know anything about you or your husband other than the fact that 17 years ago he did something stupid, and hide it from you which was another stupid thing. But in the relationships I've seen and the successful ones that I've had the pleasure to witness forgiveness, true forgiveness is one of loves best characteristics, has he proven to be the great man that you wanted to marry 17 years ago? if the answer is yes, then tell him he was a moron and that what he did was stupid and inconsiderate, and to be forthcoming about the stupid stuff he does. And even be a little thankful for as much pain as this has caused you (which is by no means small), if you had known then and decided not to marry him, all the wonderful times you would have missed, and the wonderful children you were able to have, and the nice home, and good lifestyle, you were able to enjoy these past 17 years.


j, November 12, 2009
 

...

I think this was a pretty good article, and it brought up a couple of good points. I myself as a man think that a lap dance is probably the last point you can do before crossing the line and even then there are some people who take the lap dance a little too far. As far I know, have seen, have encountered, and have heard........there are 2 forms of cheating.

1.) The Emotional Cheating = Which includes flirting with other women, talking on the phone with other women, chatting on internet with other women, etc. etc. basically everything that involves not touching another woman, but supposedly haveing inappropriate conversations with them. (Although some people add the strip club and all its wonder to this category)

2.) The Physical Cheating = Which includes haveing any type of physical sexual relations with another woman, being hand jobs, blow jobs, sex....ya know the works.

However, I myself do not believe in the Emotional Cheating, and I do not see anything such as a lap dance or a strip club to be cheating......if thats the case then you might as well say that watching porn is cheating too. You might as well say that taking a quick glance at another attactive male/female other than your significant other is cheating. You also might as well say that your dreams about sexing movies stars or famous people is cheating too. I think that paranoia is cause of a lot of reasons people tend to worry about strippers and strip clubs. My opinion basically is if you love your man and trust them, then you should have nothing to worry about him getting a lap dance or throwing a couple of dollars to get a stripper to focus her dancing his way. Have faith ladies. You have nothing to worry about.

So let your men have some fun. Its only one night, they get a chance to get some attention from a female other than you and then all that attention that brought them too you will be yours till death do you part (hopefully).
Dunndolo4life, December 29, 2009
 

The Stripper's Perspective

As a married stripper...I've given plenty of lapdances and don't consider it cheating in my relationship.
StripandGrowRich, January 08, 2010
 

One time Marriage

I am truly in love with my girlfriend and for the first time felt that I have found someone that really understands love and honesty. We talk about everything even when we are upset at each other about some differences and views. I am not worried at all about a bachelor party because I really don't care for strippers at all. I feel, why put yourself in the situation for questioning. My girlfriend on the other hand has no problem if I go to a strip club and once during late hours, we went on Bourbon Street and went in a strip club for about 10 minutes to use the bathroom. She likes to talk alot when she is drinking and I see some guys take that as flirting but she is just talkative. I really don't know that side of her if there is a freak side. I know that if you are really serious about marriage then neither would want those type of situations whether one felt it was ok or not. I don't need to go crazy on my bachelor night just because I am getting married... had all the time before if I wanted to chance ruining it all in one night.
New Proposal, January 21, 2010
 

What have we here?

So I'm reading the comments to see what other guys have to say about this article, and I'm not surprised that most of the comments are from...women. Looking at the comment ratings, I'd also say that this "Groom's site" is probably mostly read by women. My two cents...talk it over with your Fiancée and come to an understanding. That doesn't mean just do what she says...you'll have the rest of your life for that ;)

To "Evolved Women" et al. Ask yourselves this: do you get all pissy that there's a Spike TV channel, magazines like Maxim and Stuff, and god forbid ESPN? Then you don't love men. Look, I read GQ, Esquire, and the Economist; I'll go to the symphony, the ballet and the museum... and I'll watch just about anything my future wife wants to on television (except Lifetime Network, that stuff is crap). I love her dearly and can't wait to spend the rest of my life with her. Occasionally though, I like to drink beer instead of scotch, see lots of things exploding on my television and yes, fake boobies; It doesn't make us neanderthals and it doesn't mean we don't love you. Get over it.

To "extra90": I'm very sorry you're in that situation and I hope you come to the resolution that is right for you and find happiness again.
To "j" : You rock sister. All women should read your posts and let it sink in. You've totally got it figured out.
To each his own., January 28, 2010
 
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