There’s an old saying about the distinction between art and pornography: maybe you can’t define pornography, but you’ll “know it when you see it.” True here?
There’s an old saying about the distinction between art and pornography: maybe you can’t define pornography, but you’ll “know it when you see it.” Typically, the ethics of the bachelor party works the same way: if it feels wrong, it’s probably wrong.
Then again, it’s never really that simple, is it? To help guide your moral compass, we’ve created a continuum of bachelor wrongness, with “0” as spotless as a lamb, and “10” a cheating, lying, Joe-Francis-esque douchebag.
What’s your score?
Basic male-bonding activities
Cheating Score: 0.000
Harmless stuff like playing poker, puffing cigars, and knocking back some bottles of well-aged Scotch. If your fiancée is threatened by this activity, consider calling off the wedding. Seriously. At bare minimum, every guy deserves some quality time with his best friends.
Flirting with random girls at club
Cheating Score: 1.5
When your buddies drag you out to a bar, they’re bound to tell the waitresses and random girls that it’s your last night of freedom, your swansong, your final gasp of fresh air. To clarify: this is bullshit. Your last gasp of freedom was months or even years ago—you’re in a monogamous relationship; you’re already committed. That said, on your bachelor party, harmless flirting (so long as it’s harmless) is beyond reproach.
Going to a strip club…just to watch
Cheating Score: 3.5
Yes, theoretically, it’s possible to simply go to the strip club and just watch. This make about as much sense as going to Home Depot to stare at the pipes and lumber. Besides, it’s insulting to the girls if you refuse their goods and services. They work really hard for your benefit—only a real jerk would ignore them. You’re classier than that.
Tipping a stripper while she’s onstage
Cheating Score: 4.2
You know the move. It’s when the stripper grinds out her pole dance—in public, onstage—then you put some money in front of you, and then she’ll shower you with a little extra attention. It’s not a lapdance, per se, but it’s more personalized attention. They won’t be thrilled, but most fiancées will be okay with this.
The Lapdance
Cheating Score: 4.5 through 6.5
The great debate. Is getting a lapdance cheating? Let’s look at it from your fiancée’s perspective. A hot, skinny, naked, slutty woman is grinding her crotch against you, making you pant with lust, and rubbing her breasts all over your body. And you wonder why she’s jealous? If this was some random girl at a bar, she’d have every right to dump you right then and there. The counter-argument: this is not some random girl in a bar. It’s a controlled act in a controlled environment—and the stripper doesn’t want to screw you, she just wants to screw you out of another $100.
Two variables come into play:
- Your fiancée’s thoughts on the matter.
- Your intentions and attitudes toward lapdances.
Let’s say that your fiancée explicitly forbid you from getting lapdances, but your friends have no such constraints. This sucks. You may get mocked by your buddies. And frankly, you and your fiancée may need to make sure you are on the same page about a whole host of behavioral issues. All that said… the rules are the rules. At the risk of getting all cheesy, you love your fiancée more than you love a 3-minute dance that costs over 20 bucks.
The second variable: your intentions. If you view the lapdance as something fun and harmless that’s just part of bachelor party behavior—like gambling in Vegas or snorkeling in Hawaii—then she really does have nothing to worry about. If, however, you long for those non-fiancée breasts, insist on more and more lapdances, fondle her, and pay her something like $200…then yeah, your fiancée has a valid gripe.
Kissing the Stripper
Cheating Score: 7
Everyone is different, but this is where I, personally, draw the line. Call me old-fashioned, call me a prude, call me in the tank for the bride—but a kiss is a kiss. And kissing is cheating. Because the stripper was only doing it for money, however, the sin isn’t as bad as…
Kissing random girl in a bar
Cheating Score: 7.5
We’ll give it to you straight. The guy who makes out with a random girl—a month before his wedding—is the guy who will later have an affair, the guy who makes that “50%” statistic a reality. Just sayin’.
Handjob from a stripper
Cheating Score: 8.1
Dude. You got a handjob. From someone besides your future wife. “But it was at a bachelor party!!!!!” doesn’t excuse it, doesn’t condone it. You’ve cheated. Now what do you do? Click here.
Blowjob from a stripper
Cheating Score: 8.5
If a blowjob can effectively end a presidency, yes, it’s powerful enough to end your marriage.
Sex with a stripper
Cheating Score: 9.3
Congratulations. You have just bought yourself a lifetime of shame. You will bury this, regret this, and be ashamed of this for the next 70 years. Or until your divorce. Wonder which will come first? At least you didn’t have…
Sex with a random girl
Cheating score: 10.0
Why is this worse than sex with a stripper? From your fiancée’s perspective, at least a stripper is a professional, doesn’t represent a real threat, and can probably be dismissed as a one-time deal. (Note: this doesn’t mean she wouldn’t be pissed. She’d be outraged. Ballistic. And she might call off the wedding. We’re just comparing relative degrees of badness, like Charles Manson vs. Hitler.) And again, if you do hook up with Random Girl, click here.
-Jeff Wilser
Follow: ThePlunge on Twitter.
Follow: Jeff Wilser on Twitter.








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Nice
You Bet
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Nice Morals
Never been told
After 17 years of being married, few months ago my husband told me that he had a bachelor party and "things went too far". He knew I will not accept something like this so he decided to hide because he didn't want to risk losing me!!!
Suprise #!: he has a party and was able to hide the plans and the party so well that I did not even suspect (he never even mentioned he wants to have one, or his friends are talking about it)
Suprise#2: "things went too far", he was able to keep a straight face and not look guilty or weird...that takes a lot of self control or a lot of "not caring" about your future wife!!!
When he first told me and saw my suprise and anger, he said "honey I swear, there was no intercourse"!! That told me right away that there was everything else up to that intercourse..if he is honest. Then the story started getting lighter that he only got a lapdance and touched boobies and watched the woman-on-woman show...he said the stripper didn't touched anything below the belt..
Now do you consider what my husband did "cheating"?
Is it normal for the groom to completely hide the b-party from bride? Is it ok not to even mention the subject with the bride and do it behind her back?
I feel so disrespected and angry not just because of the physical events (touching, etc.), but the fact that he didn't even care enough to tell me his friends had planned a b-party.
Also, I have lost trust and respect for him because if he can go "too far" and be able to keep a normal face, what else has he hidden from me and what kind of a person is he? Is lying so natural for him that he doesn't even blink???
We have 2 boys toghether so against all my beliefs, standards, values, etc. I have decided to stay with him with the condition that if I find out one more lie in the past or future, boys and I will be gone.. For now, I can't ruin my boys home..so I am in counseling and in a lot of hurt and pain...
He swears it was just a one time screw up and he is not the person I have come to believe he is...
what do you all think? I really like to know if anyone else has been in this situation and has any story or experience to share...Advices are very welcome too!!
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Does anyone here realize what commitment is? If you want to engage in thoughtless perversions like a caveman, you shouldn't be marrying anybody...you should be single and playing the lonely field full of attention-seeking little girls with daddy issues.
Anyone who is lucky enough to have found someone that they genuinely love enough to marry probably doesn't even desire to see "non-fiancée breasts"...ugh. Ladies, don't think that there aren't men out there who are better than this! What a joke.
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And another thing - If he says I'm not allowed to do it, then well in my book he shouldn't be able to either. I don't think a man would like the idea of his fiance going to a bachelorette party with male strippers and them rubbing up on her, and I have a feeling that men get a lot more jealous, than women do.
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I am fine when the partners are open about their b-party and honest about what happened. I have had friend (men and women) that had their party and came home and reacted for their partner. That is open/honest relationship. My problem with my husband is that he had the party behind my back...went too far (according to him) and was able to cover it up and not even blink the next day when he saw me or made love to me...that is the part I can't get over and that is why I consider it cheating...If he didn't say a word before the party, felt guilty after the party, he thought he had to hide it from me because I would get upset, then I say he had every intention of going too far and lie about it. Also, I consider it disrespect for me...If he had discussed it with me and did it knowing that I wouldn't like it, then it would be inconsiderate and deserve a good long "talk" with him...if he doesn't even mention it before or after, that show that I didn't even exists in his world, and therefore no need to discuss.. That is what my problem is with the hiding. The physical part I can live with...I brought a belly dancer for him at our wedding. I also a while back talking to one of my guy friends to take my husband with them next time they go to strip club. I think I am pretty open minded about these things...but when it comes to honesty and trust, I say I am very black and white...
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Good Advice Given to Me - Might Help You
Here's some advice that was given to me and maybe it will help others: if you wouldn't do it (whatever "it" is) in front of your fiancee/fiance, then you probably shouldn't be doing it.
Have an open discussion about this with your fiance/fiancee and also with the people who are planning your big night out. And don't beat the topic to death - once you've reached an understanding, let the subject go and get back to enjoying each other and your engagement.
I hope this helps!
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really?
1- I totally trust the man I'm marrying and don't care what he does at his bachelor party. Both of us are from Las Vegas so the whole strip club thing is not a new idea, concept, or event it really is not a big deal (honestly). My man has been to strip club and refused lap dances (why?? I have no clue, honestly I don't) for his 21st birthday I gave his friend a bunch of 1s (for tip money that I had saved so he could tip the stripper and have a great time) which they used to buy shots instead. The stripper is not trying to steal your husband or future husband whatever, she wants money. Your husband in turn is not trying to cheat on you or disrepect you either, he is trying to have a fun time with his friends. I understand that cheating is different for everyone, and the line at which that occurs is as individual as your relationship.
A couple of questions then
why can't he have fun some other way like poker or drinks or something where there isn't naked women fondling themselves?
As I'm sure this is the case with most men, they have seen other women besides you naked, perhaps even have pictures of them in porno stash, are they sleeping with them? no. Ok well then why would they sleep with the stripper? They wouldn't. It is honestly something to do, and is more about the other non-married single men who want to go out and look (this is what my boyfriend said to me).
If you are questioning what your man is going to do at his bachelor party perhaps you should reevaluate the trust issue in your relationship. You clearly don't trust him enough to determine what is the line and what isn't. Guys contrary to popular belief are smart they know what is ok and what is not. If your guy doesn't want to cheat on you he won't. Is there a grey area you might want to discuss a little before they go out? maybe. You might want to clarify what is cheating to you and what isn't. But don't in any way try to control where they go on their bachelor night (let them have this one, let them be manly men and blow a few hundred bucks and have an awesome time, let them realize that the reason that they want to marry you is because your not a control psycho, but the fun beautiful, smart, wonderful woman, who trust them.) Think of it this way you just made them spend the last however long your engagement was doing wedding stuff (which would be like several hours of shoveling horse manure for you after which you deserve the spa treatment great glass of wine and to have the best dinner on the planet which to a guy = lots of drinking, smoking, gambling, and perhaps some fake boobies (and almost all strippers boobs are fake which according to a guy friend of mine fun to look at but not fun to play with.)
to extra90
honestly I don't think your guy tried to hide anything from you or be disrespectful, judging by how upset you were about just hearing about the party is probably why he didn't tell you in the first place. He married you, he loves you, he had children with you. Is the man that he has been the last 17 years the man you love and care about? I bet you he doesn't even remember the strippers name or what she looked like. He probably didn't tell you because you would get so mad about it and to him it wasn't a big deal. Think about it if he had told you he was going to a strip club would you let him? And don't pretend like yea I would be fine with it, thinking about who you were at that time, and be honest about it. I think honestly he said it with a straight face because he honestly didn't do anything, you know when he's lying. He doesn't want to lose you and he knows that going to the strip club and getting a lap dance would have made you freak out (its ok to freak out about it, but also think about how much you trust him and love him, in the grand scheme of things that he could have done, sleeping with her, losing your entire life savings, losing his job and not telling you, buying a sports car that you can't afford when you really need a mini-van, think of all the years that you have been together and all the times that he has been there for you, supported you, desired you, cherished you, loved you.) So he messed up (and probably not as bad as you think he did, and then he told you, if he really didn't care about you he would have just never told you granted it took forever for him to do probably because he has been feeling so guilty about it and trying to prove to you that he is the wonderful person you wanted to married and he might have been scared that he didn't have enough proof of that, I have a guy friend that has cheated numerous times on his wife he doesn't care enough to tell her, because he doesn't love her, but he doesn't support her or cherish her either, and doesn't want to have kids with her.) Now obviously I don't know your relationship, and I don't know anything about you or your husband other than the fact that 17 years ago he did something stupid, and hide it from you which was another stupid thing. But in the relationships I've seen and the successful ones that I've had the pleasure to witness forgiveness, true forgiveness is one of loves best characteristics, has he proven to be the great man that you wanted to marry 17 years ago? if the answer is yes, then tell him he was a moron and that what he did was stupid and inconsiderate, and to be forthcoming about the stupid stuff he does. And even be a little thankful for as much pain as this has caused you (which is by no means small), if you had known then and decided not to marry him, all the wonderful times you would have missed, and the wonderful children you were able to have, and the nice home, and good lifestyle, you were able to enjoy these past 17 years.
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1.) The Emotional Cheating = Which includes flirting with other women, talking on the phone with other women, chatting on internet with other women, etc. etc. basically everything that involves not touching another woman, but supposedly haveing inappropriate conversations with them. (Although some people add the strip club and all its wonder to this category)
2.) The Physical Cheating = Which includes haveing any type of physical sexual relations with another woman, being hand jobs, blow jobs, sex....ya know the works.
However, I myself do not believe in the Emotional Cheating, and I do not see anything such as a lap dance or a strip club to be cheating......if thats the case then you might as well say that watching porn is cheating too. You might as well say that taking a quick glance at another attactive male/female other than your significant other is cheating. You also might as well say that your dreams about sexing movies stars or famous people is cheating too. I think that paranoia is cause of a lot of reasons people tend to worry about strippers and strip clubs. My opinion basically is if you love your man and trust them, then you should have nothing to worry about him getting a lap dance or throwing a couple of dollars to get a stripper to focus her dancing his way. Have faith ladies. You have nothing to worry about.
So let your men have some fun. Its only one night, they get a chance to get some attention from a female other than you and then all that attention that brought them too you will be yours till death do you part (hopefully).
The Stripper's Perspective
One time Marriage
What have we here?
To "Evolved Women" et al. Ask yourselves this: do you get all pissy that there's a Spike TV channel, magazines like Maxim and Stuff, and god forbid ESPN? Then you don't love men. Look, I read GQ, Esquire, and the Economist; I'll go to the symphony, the ballet and the museum... and I'll watch just about anything my future wife wants to on television (except Lifetime Network, that stuff is crap). I love her dearly and can't wait to spend the rest of my life with her. Occasionally though, I like to drink beer instead of scotch, see lots of things exploding on my television and yes, fake boobies; It doesn't make us neanderthals and it doesn't mean we don't love you. Get over it.
To "extra90": I'm very sorry you're in that situation and I hope you come to the resolution that is right for you and find happiness again.
To "j" : You rock sister. All women should read your posts and let it sink in. You've totally got it figured out.
my thoguht
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It's a right of passage for the Stag. To be honest the people that think it's cheating are normally the people with confidence issues, most likely used dating sites to hook up because they are too shy to meet people in a bar in the first place and need get over it.
As for the post above mine....."your not doing anything but putting yourself in a situation"
Get a life, situations happen everywhere not just a strip club its how you deal with them, please say you dont get angry when you 'BF' looks at FHM etc...oh no girls he might actually find attractive as well as you, that he will never meet and most likey choose you over them anyway.
All the best
A mad future Stag
>=(
hahahahaha
OMG
one last thing and hear me out here. ALL GUYS look at other girls, its in our most basic of animal instincts to see attractive members of the opposite sex and like it. its doesn't make us love our wife's or future wife's any less. any man who has to hide this from his wife for the rest of their marriage is gonna be unhappy even if he doesn't show it. 50+ years ago (Feel free to look this up) woman had to have sugery to stop them from haveing orgasms cause it was deemed wrong and imoral lol that stupid and we all know it, so what will people think of us and our sex lives 50 years from now or 100 ? are we revolutionary and free ? or are we backwards and untrusting lol you think about.
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As for the other comments about lap dances and such, I think it's funny when guys/girls trash girls who get jealous when their guys get lap dances. I think it shows a real lack of maturity, to be honest. Every couples' boundaries are there own, and no person should feel obligated to just "suck it up" so their SO can get a lap dance. I know plenty of great wives who are 100% against strip clubs and I know even more who are fine with their guys going just to look, but no lap dances (I'm the "look but don't touch" type...guess that makes me a jealous, untrusting girlfriend, lol). And then I have a couple friends who are fine with their guys even getting lap dances, and that's totally fine. Like I said, every couples' boundaries are their own, and if something would REALLY hurt your SO's feelings, then think about why you're with that person to begin with, and is hurting them really worth the "right" to a lap dance, or whatever? Having a naked stripper rubbing his man parts all over me would bother my guy, so I won't, because he means more to me that having some dude rub up on me for 20 seconds. Ultimately, it's NOT that big a sacrifice.
Good lord, ladies...
Puritaints
There are so many other reasons besides sex that your marriages are already doomed. Partaking of the OLDEST profession was, is, and whether you can handle it or not, will always be available, accessible, and busy.
Why? Because, no social laws or potential repercussions can deter a horny person from the joys of unattached carnal sex. It never has, and it never will. It is just too damn good.
Those opposed to the occasional strange for themselves, their partner, or together are the real dying breed. To truly believe that someone is ENOUGH for another person is too naive and self-centered a belief and far too rooted in ones fears of inadequacy to parse out in an email. But that same fear, denial, and egotistical attitude is what drives all aspects of that persons life, not just the sex part.
Still pretending that prostitution, stripping, and the likes are some modern immoral aberration that only exists on the fringes, only makes you sound like an idiot. In reality, either you just have a weak libido, you haven't (despite vehement arguments to the contrary) had a quality orgasm yet, or you just haven't quite matured enough to look at the world around you.
To be so egocentric that you demand another human think only of you, or only fuck you, until they die. To believe that it is proof of love is too sad to work with. That kind of thinking is the fuel for dishonesty and denial. The blinders you are wearing are the reason you are unhappy, not the horny dude or dudette, that is just getting off on their charged libidos.
Do not sully and demean words like respect, honor, belief, and love, by projecting them in place of lack of self-confidence, fear, and spoiled unrealistic attitudes.
The truth is, once demystified, sex gets better with a single person over time for most people. You learn what makes your partner happy and you have a person to explore the unknown with. Pretending like it's your religious faith that motivates your lifestyle does not fool anyone as much as you think it does.
And if you can't let your partner get one last piece of ass before they commit to eternity with you and your copious and adequate sexual prowess? Don't cry WHEN you discover your shortcomings.
Thanks for letting me rant.
Men are pigs don't trust them
Women are worse, don't trust them